Episode 47 · September 10, 2026 · 23 min 4 sec

Build an Environment Where Everyone Wins

How do I lead clients or a team through moments of doubt?

How do you lead so that clients outperform you? Opening a new season of The Fourth State Podcast, Bailey Guilloud says a leader's main job is building an environment where everyone wins: wanting clients to earn more than you, holding confidence they can borrow, and giving them status, reputation, and meaningful networking. The season's theme is the capacity to hold success, not more strategy.

Hosted by Bailey Guilloud · The Fourth State Podcast

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Questions about this episode

How do I lead clients or a team through moments of doubt?

Bailey Guilloud says to hold the confidence for them. See a vision bigger than they can and anticipate that they will follow through; they borrow that belief when theirs dips. She contrasts “hopefully we'll find you a home” with “I'm really confident we can get you the best match.”

What is an ecosystem of success?

A business environment built as a positive-sum game where everyone wins. Bailey says a leader's number one job is to give people permission to win big, even bigger than the leader, without apology.

Why should leaders want clients to surpass them?

Bailey says leaders often get quietly insecure when a client moves past their own level and pull the conversation back. Her standard is the opposite: “I want my clients to make more money than me,” be fitter, and close more sales.

Why do customers choose one business over another?

Bailey says if price were the only factor, everyone would choose the cheapest option. People choose brands that upgrade their identity and status; her examples are jewelry, streetwear, and shoppers who pick Whole Foods or Trader Joe's.

What makes networking inside a program meaningful?

Isolating small experiences where people go deep instead of wide: pairing salespeople to practice calls, grouping people by the weights they lift, or having creators teach each other. Pairing a top performer with someone who is struggling helps both.

What is this season of The Fourth State Podcast about?

Applying what you already know. Bailey says we are not starving for information; many people learn the strategy and the branding, but if you cannot hold the capacity it takes, everything falls short.

About this episode

A 23-minute season opener. Bailey's example comes from an Amazon e-commerce brand she worked with: its top-seller reviews came from making customers feel cool every time they left a review, with a small gift or discount.

Full Transcript

Transcript of The Fourth State Podcast episode “Build an Environment Where Everyone Wins” with host Bailey Guilloud, lightly edited for readability. Learn more about Bailey’s work at fourthstate.net.

Read the full transcript

Welcome to a new season of the Fourth State podcast. This episode, we're going to be talking about the ecosystem of success, and this is really significant of what to expect this whole season, this whole season, we're going to be talking about the psychology, but also the capacity to hold success, because I've seen so many people learn the strategy, learn the branding, learn the prompts, learn the, you know, exact, exact plan to follow through. But if your mindset or if you cannot hold the capacity of what it takes, then everything falls short.

It doesn't matter what you learn. And the truth is that we have information at our fingertips. We are not, you know, starving for information. What this whole season is going to be about, is about applying all of the things that you already know, the things that you know about business in general, the things that you know about visibility, the things that you know about storytelling. And to set this whole season up, I wanted to talk about the ecosystem of success and how all good businesses have some sort of ecosystem where everyone wins.

And it's essentially creating a positive sum game, but I'm going to take it to an X level and invite you to really allow your people, your clients, the people that you are interacting with to have permission to win big. There's this really unspoken thing that happens, when you are mentoring something or when someone's a client that you, or even like as your friendships, evolve in who you know, your colleagues. You know, you want them to win, but when they start to win past you, there's gets this point where you're almost insecure about it.

And sometimes you don't even notice it, how you bring these conversations that ask the client to come back to where they are to begin with. A really good example of this is say, for instance, that you are a sales manager. And you are teaching your your student to learn a higher level of sales. And you want them to do really well. You want them to get to, you know, that 80, 90% mark. But then when they start going past your level of competency, then there starts to be this question of like, okay, am I still leading them?

And my, my, The reason that I'm bringing this up to begin with is because this is the most wounded, sticky part of this. I could start this off by saying, oh, you you want to give your your your people, your clients, the permission to win big, but I'm asking you to not even go to that point. I'm asking you to go beyond. I want my clients to make more money than me. I want my clients to be even fitter than me. I want my clients to be even more of an expert in branding than me. I want my clients to make more sales than me.

This is how you create an incredible ecosystem in business. You want even more than a positive sum game for your clients. Because your job as a leader is to create a winning environment. If you are not creating a winning environment for everyone involved, then you are not doing your job as a leader. And this can kind of go to the wayside sometimes, we think that as a leader, we need to hold presence, we need to answer all the difficulties, but your number one job is to allow an identity that they can grow bigger. They can grow more peaceful.

They can grow more peaceful. They can grow even more richer in your environment and they have permission to do that without apology. They have permission to win big without asking for permission. This is your main job as a leader. And the part that goes into creating this ecosystem that's also really, really important is that all good business models make other people feel cool. All good business models have something that they are upgrading your identity in some way. A really good example of this is think about going and buying a piece of jewelry.

You know, you are paying, let's say, a thousand, 2000 for a really, really beautiful iced out gold piece of jewelry. But you're doing it very easily. It's something that is so natural to you because you know that having this piece of jewelry is going to make all of your outfuts look better. There's going to be some identity that's like, oh, I'm dripping in gold. I'm dripped out, you know, and this helps them upgrade their identity. It helps them feel cool. Another example of this is not just in product-based businesses of, you know, once you, once you wear it, you'll feel cool, but you can also look at this in like streetwear brands.

You buy the brand because you're associated with the brand. It feels cool. Another example is doing something where your clients or your customers feel like they can help out other people. So, you know, you could do this through when you buy our product, then you can gift a 10% or 20% discount code to your friends. I remember this was something that I saw in a really powerful e-commerce brand that I worked with. I worked with an Amazon e-commerce brand for a while. And our reviews were insane on Amazon. And that's what made us one of the top sellers in our industry is because we had the best reviews.

We had that on luck. And the way that we got that is because we made our clients feel cool every time they reviewed us. We gave them a little gift, we gave them a little discount. We offered something that was amazing for them. And, you know, it's a win-win situation, they get to honestly review the product. They get to honestly receive something from us too. You know, if you scratch our back, we'll scratch yours. And so, Creating an ecosystem of success means that when they are in your environment, not only are you allowing them to win bigger than you, not only are you allowing them to feel cool, but they also receive something because of it.

They either receive status. In the instance of the jewelry, they're receiving status in the instance of, the streetwear brand, they're receiving status. They also could receive reputation or networking. If they're receiving reputation, you know, that's the example of receiving the discount code for their friend. They've received a reputation where they can actually show up for their friends. They have the inn with this company. Oh, that's gonna make them look so cool. Not only that, you can also create this space where when you're in this environment, you can network with people.

You can have connections with other people. And it's not just meaningless networking. Like the, the, the, the way to create a winning environment is to create meaningful networking, meaningful networking, meaning that you allow, you promote collaboration, you promote learning and masterminding from each other, you're experiencing more together, and it's a win-win situation for everyone. That doesn't mean that you're just talking about like, how was your weekend? How is this? It's like, no, let's pair up people who potentially could really learn together and have them collaborate on something.

This could look like, you know, having different groups and fitness classes where you're you're feeding off the energy of other people. The people who can lift 80-pound weights are together, the people who can lift 20-pound weights are together, and you're gaining something by networking with that person. Or in other instances, you know, if you are, you know, having a sales client, if you're teaching people sales, you're networking with others, trying on different scenarios. You know, you can you can try on a sales call with another person.

You can network with that person to gain actual experience. And so notice that, When I'm talking about this, yes, just general networking and being in touch with other people is good, but you want to take it to another level. You want to isolate different experiences where they truly can go home and create a huge difference with that networking. There's a difference in being like, oh, you're you're in sales too. Like, let me hang out versus, okay, you're in sales too. Let's let's practice our sales conversations with together.

Are you, you create content too? Let's create content together. Let's mastermind on this. And where can I teach you and where can you teach me? Okay, you're good at this type of content? Well, I'm good at this type of content. Let me, let me teach you and you teach me and let's both become experts in this. So it's beyond just nice to meet you and this is nice to know your name or whatever. It's like creating these, really isolated networking experiences so that you can go deep instead of wide. Imagine if you created a mastermind or a even networking company where you, you paired people together and had them learn different things together.

This is a great example of a positive sum game. Immediately, you are getting something more than just going to have a beer and learning people's names. You're actually getting feedback on what's next. And the thing is that that not only helps you with your skills and where you're going in your own company, you also create a deeper connection with these people that you're in, these isolated environments with. So, you know, the same with the fitness class. Now that you've been isolated to work out with the same person that is at 30 pounds picking up 30 pounds on these rows, then you know that person.

You know that person by name, next time you come in, you know, you know, how they interact with their workout, you know that maybe that they're the one that pushes you a little bit more. You know a little bit more about them. And that creates a more positive networking situation than just saying, oh, free for all, talk about your weekend there, talk about your weekend there. That will happen naturally, like the chit chat will happen naturally. And that's not something that I think needs to be optimized for. The optimization of networking needs to be happened in these micro experiences where everyone wins.

There's an ecosystem of everyone winning. When you are leading clients and helping them get results and helping them move differently and helping them grow their their technique, their skill. It is so important that you as a leader have the utmost confidence. And this is, if I were to put 2 things that really make a leader succeed. It's in number one, allowing them to go bigger than even you can imagine, allowing that to be a possibility. And number two, being incredibly confident that they can follow through on it.

It's crazy what I've seen. As I've coached 100s of people in fitness in health and meditation, that it is crazy what happens when you actually allow your client clients to borrow your own confidence. So what it means to be confident as a leader and helping them get results. And it means that you see the path forward for them. You're able to see a vision bigger than they could ever see it. And you're extremely confident that they'll be able to do it. There's this crazy thing that happens that when you are being led by someone that thinks that way, you actually go and get it.

So, you know, let's use a few examples to think about this truly is like, where can you be confident as a leader and create this environment to win big without apology? Where can you do that? Like, let's say, for instance, you're a real estate agent. If you go into the environment and you think, oh, well, you know, hopefully we'll find the best home for you, like, you know, we're looking for something like this. What does that inspire in the client? That inspires low confidence that inspires, you know, hopefully it works out, not sure versus, hey, you know, I've seen what's out there and I'm really confident that we can get you the best match for you.

I'm going to do everything in my power, and this is what I'm going to need from you to show up in that way. You know, I'm going to need the information that you want. I'm going to need what specific area you want to be in. And use this in every different industry too. Like, let's go ahead with the sales manager role. If you're a sales manager who doesn't have much confidence in whether this person is going to follow through. You're teaching someone. And maybe they're a little bit shy. Maybe they're not showing up to the Zoom calls with their camera on.

And you simply put on them that, oh, well, they're not going to make it there. I'm not confident that they're going to make it. Versus you coming up to the conversation and saying, I am so confident that you are going to shift into a bigger version of yourself. You're going to start showing up to these Zoom calls with your camera on with your notes ready. There's a different energy. Even if you don't say it, those specific things out loud. Your simple expectations on how your client will show up, even if you have evidence that you think they won't show up in a certain way.

It changes the energy of the environment. It changes the energy of the client and coach relationship. It changes the environment of the service provider and the client relationship. When you have this, anticipation rather than expectation, I think that's a better word to describe it is like, I anticipate you. And I am so confident in you to be incredibly successful. They borrow that belief for a moment. There are so many instances where, people and in let's say clients, like they they feel moments of low confidence.

Maybe they learn from you and they're like, Oh my gosh, can I actually do this? Maybe they just get tired. Maybe they just stop having the capacity to do something. There are so many instances where there is lower confidence where there's anxiety. And your job as a leader is to hold through those moments with confidence, is to say, okay, wow, I know that what you're going through is a difficult moment, and this is how we're going to leap through it. And I encourage you to borrow this belief from me. When you hold that space as a leader, it is crazy what happens for your clients.

And it creates this ecosystem again where they can believe in themselves. They can win big. They can show up. They can have a positive sum. Ecosystem not only in, you know, the physical thing that they're showing up for, again, in the sales manager, like they physically will show up more, but they'll also feel more competent in themselves. It's like this ball in motion, stays in motion. And sometimes your job as a leader is to help that motion begin and again and again, again and again. So where can you create an ecosystem in your own business?

What is it that you need to do as a leader, to show up more, to allow your customers to win big, to allow them to win even bigger than you could. Where can you allow there to be a positive sum game where everyone wins? Where, you know, this, if you're a sales manager and you're seeing one of your clients do well, where can you make it possible where not only one is doing well, but the others are doing well? Everyone is doing well. There's a positive sum game. There's not, someone who's at the top, there's all, we're all creating this environment where everyone can win.

There's no one left behind. There's everyone wins based off of everyone's win. If you win, I win. If you win, I win. This is the energy that you want to create in those environments. And then when people do win big and there are people left behind, those are moments where you can really isolate that environment to learn more. So say, for example, one of the people that you are teaching in sales is doing really well, but another is not doing so well. Pair those people together and have them practice. And the person who isn't doing as well, you're the, they're going to learn just as much from the other person.

And and so it's a win-win situation is basically to creating this transparency, but also creating this space where everyone wins. Creating this environment where you are incredibly confident in that too, creating this environment where they can borrow your belief of, you know, you can trust yourself. This is the energy that you need to be in, creating this environment of uplifting mentorship, I suppose, is a great way to put it, but it's really about noticing anywhere that even subtly, you only want them to win to a certain degree.

And so where can you, where can you notice this in your own leadership? Like, If you're teaching people to go viral on social media, but you don't want them to go as viral as you've ever been, then this is not good leadership. If you are teaching fitness, but you only want them to show up at a certain fitness level, then this is not good leadership. You want to see your client past even the level that you can imagine. And this is what creates an ecosystem of success, they look cool, you get something out of it. They either get a reputation, they get the networking, they get the status.

Status is a huge, huge one too. You know, like, it's, it's a very true thing that people do thing. People do things to be cool. People join gyms because this is the cool place to be. People join programs, mentorship because this is a cool place to be. I can connect with other cool people. I can either get the status, the shout outs, the reputation. And so where can you allow people to feel cool to be the best that they can possibly be and not feel dragged down because they need to be at a certain level to fit into this place.

This is how you create an ecosystem of success and actually help them go past levels that you could even imagine about. So where are you making your clients feel cool? Where are you giving them reputation? Where are you giving them status? These are things that really, really matter and are unspoken, but It is why people are choosing certain businesses over another. You know, think about this in every single thing that you buy. Why are you buying from this streetwear brand and not that one? Why are you buying from that grocery store and not that one?

Why are you, because, you know, obviously there are certain things that come into play of price or whatever, but, you know, if price was the only option in why you choose something, then we would all be choosing the lowest price option, and that's just not the case. Yes, there was a lot of people who do choose that. But people want to go to Whole Foods because of the status. People want to go to Trader Joe's because of the status. They're not choosing Aldi. A lot of people are, but when you're talking about creating this ecosystem of success, then there is the status involved in going, why are they choosing your firm and not the other, there's some sort of status and that status can just be from how you present yourself as a brand.

It can just be that, you know, I like being in this brand's energy. And so where are you allowing them to win? Where are you allowing them status? Where are you allowing them reputation? These are the things that really create an ecosystem of success and allow you to grow as a leader, where people per pass, per- surpass you, where your clients do even better than you. And when you start to have that reputation, that when you're with me, you win big. You're not only getting this service where I'm going to tell you a home, where I'm going to teach you sales, where I'm going to teach you to get fit.

You're going to be in an environment that is asking you to upgrade your standards. That is going to give you status. That is much more alluring than just you're getting the best deal. And so where can you create this ecosystem of success in your business?